Leading the witness

Often times we are eager to interview candidates to join our organization and some times we get so excited or have so much information to cover that we make this common interview mistake – we lead the witness.

leading the witness

With an estimated 5-6 million jobs open in the U.S. right now it makes sense that we would get eager to fill our jobs and excited to sell the candidate on our work, before letting the candidate do some talking. I’ve seen interviewers make this mistake so many times, and I always cringe when they do because it will directly impact the outcome of the interview/hiring decision.

I recently conducted a recruiting training with an HR team and I spent a lot of time on leading the witness, so much so that I had the team role play some cold calls and interviews to show them when they do this. Leading the witness can start as early as the first call (which I think is a result of so many people beating into the heads of recruiters that candidates don’t really want to talk to us – so in turn they blab everything about the job in 35 seconds because they are afraid they will never get that person on the phone again). Their HR director spoke up at one point in the training and said “If you ever get to sit in on an interview with Kristina, watch her…she does very little talking.” This is mostly because I want to hear what the candidate has to say (listen to learn), but it’s partially so I don’t do any leading. Of course to do this, you must be able to power through awkward silence. A lot of interviewers will jump to fill the silence when things get awkward and then babble down a path of telling the candidate exactly what the organization is looking for.

Now don’t get me wrong, the candidate should know what your organization is looking for and your culture shouldn’t be a secret. When you’ve done all the talking upfront and over shared what your company is looking for, you’re setting the candidate up to form their answers around what you want to hear. This makes it harder to screen for a culture fit since you’ve given away all of your culture buzzwords before you’ve heard what the candidate has in mind for their next position.

Here’s an example:

Interviewer: Here at XYZ company we are looking for candidates who believe in bringing their A game every day, we have no “off days” here. Employees give 110%. We believe in working late hours when we have a project deadline approaching, and expect project deadlines to be more important than anything else. We want some one who likes to play hard when it’s time to celebrate… etc. What are you looking for in your next job?

Interviewee: (thinking to themselves: an 8-5 where I can get my job done and go home and spend time with my kids every night, but gee, right now I really need a job) Well, I’m looking for a group of people who believe in hard work and put project deadlines above everything else.

Kind of a crummy example, but as I thought up example after example they all were descriptive of either my current or former employers and I don’t want to show all of their cards or call anyone out. The mistake here is telling them so much about your environment and THEN asking them what they want. In some cases the candidate is going to be perfectly honest with you and then you can have an honest discussion whether this is the right fit for them and the organization. In other cases people are going to say whatever you want to hear to get hired-at least until they can find the right job for themselves. In some cases people aren’t setting out to lie to you, they just haven’t put any thought into that question so they parrot back everything they just heard you say.

This mistake is most important to avoid in a company where you are screening for culture fit. If you believe culture is driving the success of your business, why widen the risk of bringing in someone who is just trying to fake it? Before you say it, remember we’ve talked about “there’s a place for everyone” i.e. “there’s a culture for everyone.”Also, this isn’t permission to disqualify people for the wrong reason. You CAN define culture so don’t rely on a vague “not a culture fit” reason for not extending an offer.

A quick search for some stats estimate that 80% of employee turnover is due to bad hiring decisions and one of the reasons this happens is the candidate isn’t really a culture fit and it wasn’t discovered in the interview process (even though it can be). There’s all kinds of stats that pop up when looking to identify how much a bad hire costs our organizations – one source said 1/3 of the employee pay, one source says 50-60% of the pay, and another says 2.5 times their salary. There are a lot of variables to consider when calculating this number, but know this: you can actually identify how much it costs your organization. So, calculate it for your organization and use that number. Data outside of your organization should mostly be taken with a grain of salt in my opinion. Especially considering there is no one size fits all solution to any of our issues, right?

Super easy solutions to this “leading the witness” mistake in general. Ask your questions first. Then expand on the job and organization after your questions have been answered and give the interviewee a chance to ask you questions. Too much to remember? Try this, if Jack McCoy would get scolded for it in the courtroom, steer clear in the interview. Awkward silence is okay, let the interviewee think and you listen.

Three Interview Rule

I’ve always suffered a bit of a professional identity crisis. Am I recruiting or am I HR? Am I both? Are they one in the same? I’ve gone back and forth, but one thing I can say without a doubt that fits with both HR and Recruiting is solid relationships with your hiring managers. I’ve had a lot of opportunities to learn how to manage this relationship and the most challenging was when recruiting for a highly technical engineering company. One thing that drove me crazy was the constant need for “more candidates” for one position. If you’re experiencing the same challenge, let me share my three interview rule with you (it’s really simple).

Me to hiring manager: Here are three candidates that fit what you are looking for based on the extensive discussions we’ve had around your current hiring need.

Hiring manager to me: Great, let’s interview all three of them.

*Interviews all of them*

Hiring manager to me: I want to interview more candidates.

Me to hiring manager: What did you not like about these three?

Hiring manager to me: I don’t know.

Me to hiring manager: Then we are starting over.

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Why would I tell them we are starting over? Because if you have found three candidates that fit the criteria you’ve discussed with the hiring manager and they still can’t make a decision, then they do not know what they are looking for. When I talk to a hiring manager we discuss every aspect of the position I can with them- minimum skills required, type of work, who the customer is, who they will report to, personalities of the team members they need to work with, day to day environment, education requirements, length of contract, hours of the schedule, peak seasons, when they might be required to work extra, what materials will they be working with…you get the picture. ANYTHING that is relevant that can help me find the perfect candidate for my customer, the hiring manager.

The three interview rule won’t work when you’ve given them candidates who do not match the job req so you should only pull this out when you’re candidates are a match for what you and the hiring manager discussed. This rule can be applied to any position, not just technical ones. Having the discussion about no more than three interviews the right way will help you build credibility with your hiring managers. Approach it as a way to revisit the job you are working on and what might need to be revisited as a requirement, not as a power move. Use it as a way to show you support the hiring manager and respect their time so you want to make sure you have the right information to get it right and help them make an informed decision. Continuing to give them candidates when they cannot tell you what they didn’t like about the qualified candidates already submitted will only drag out the hiring process.

Give it a shot and let me know how it works! As always, if you have questions, I’d be happy to answer them!

 

Learning into action #SHRM17

As I sit in another general session for #SHRM17 I wonder with my colleagues if this information is new to people in the audience. Great speaker, great information, fun delivery, but is the core of the message still new?

We have to remind ourselves that there are over 15,000 folks in this session & some of them are entry level so it is BRAND NEW to them. Some of our attendees this year have never been to any conference let alone a national conference. Some of our attendees are so busy at work that they don’t make time to read up on “new things” in our profession. So yes, for some of the audience this is new.

It’s going to continue to be new until our profession as a whole get better at it. If you haven’t been to a general session this week, “it” could be anything from improving recruitment and selection processes to building teams. So take what is inspiring you here and put it into action when you get back to work. Make a plan to present your case and turn your new information into a solution.

A few steps to not skip when turning this into action:

-Make sure it makes sense for your organization. If you can’t make a sound business case for it or identify the ROI you probably don’t need to waste your time on it.

-Don’t try and copy what you’ve heard, figure out how it applies to your organization.

-The 140 character words of wisdom floating around with the hashtag are only a tiny piece of the story. Paint the bigger picture so you can make a sound decision.

-Solve the problem your organization has. Don’t create a problem to solve, solve the one that exists.

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Education as a Benefit at #SHRM17

This morning I had the pleasure of taking a few minutes to sit down with Rachel Carlson, CEO and Co-Founder of Guild Education and one of her colleagues Zach Rowe. I was interested in knowing more about what Guild Education has going on and what the Guild sponsored session Beyond Starbucks/ASU: The Future of Education Benefits  has in store for us Tuesday morning at 7am!

Education as a benefit could be very valuable in a hiring environment that screams skills gap and talent shortage every day. Without getting into the numbers we can reflect on our own experiences at work and looking for/keeping talent & the challenges our own organizations are facing. Education as a benefit could be an effective strategic move for your organization, but I’ll let you hear it from Rachel and the panel yourself.

In talking with Rachel we covered a lot of thoughts on education as a benefit, so I’m going to do my best to sum them all up. So here’s the break down- Guild Education’s approach is about meeting the employees where they are. I personally think that is vital in considering any benefit for your organization, but I’m thrilled to know that’s Rachel’s approach for education. They are working with some big name companies implementing options from GED through Masters program- options and flexibility go a long way for today’s consumers!

A lot of times there is educational assistance for corporate office employees or executive employees, but RARELY for the front line workers. Hearing that companies like Chipotle (as in hourly food service workers) is using this as a benefit to recruit AND RETAIN employees intrigued me. I mean, this benefit is really doubling the retention of their front line workers? I get how this could help with recruiting right? Pretty obvious without even digging in to the strategy, but retention? Wouldn’t these line workers leave after they finish earning more education? Chipotle has a wonderful program for promoting from within, but there’s only so many promotion spots. Turns out employers will generally see a 3-8% enrollment in the program. Think of it this way, your top talent is taking advantage of this and that means your top talent is staying with you instead of quitting and going to work for a competitor. They’ve also done research that says 20-30% wont use it, but will value it as a benefit. Maybe those 20-30% have plans to use it later or maybe that just means encouraging continued education is a personal value that they appreciate the organization providing.

As for the employer side of this benefit, Rachel and her team sit down with potential clients and work through the numbers. That’s right, they can sit down and see if the ROI is going to be a profit center or just another benefit cost. I understand that cutting benefits when your organization is looking to save money quickly is an easy go to for the purse holders in your organization, but when there is a possibility of a benefit being a profit center you should at least stop and listen.  While I was tossing my skeptical questions to Rachel to see if this was a sound argument and how this might play out in some companies back home she made it real simple for me: “It needs to cost less than turnover.” In this case, it sounds like the Guild Education team is going to equip you with the knowledge and numbers you need to make a credible pitch.

I believe education is so important and I could go on and on about my conversation with Rachel and Zach this morning, but I want you to go to their session Tuesday morning at 7am and find out the details for yourself! Feel free to reach out to Guild directly at partnerships@guildeducation.com

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#SHRM17 Interview with Heather Kinzie

YOU GUYS, #SHRM17 IS ALMOST HERE!!! I’m so excited! I love having the opportunity to see some of my HR Friends from across the globe, learn new things, and meet new people. I spend a lot of time going through the sessions listed and deciding which sessions are relevant to where I am in my career or current problems I’m trying to solve as well as which sessions might stretch my capabilities or prepare me for a future problem I’ll face as I work to progress in my career. I’m also always interested in who is presenting each session and I imagine you all are too! I love that the blog squad gets to spend time interviewing a few speakers before conference gets here so that you all have an opportunity to learn a little about them before you build your schedule. I recently spent some time with Heather Kinzie discussing her presentation she will be doing at #SHRM17 titled Out of the Office: The Rise of the Remote Worker.

Before I get into the discussion about her presentation, let me tell you a little about heather kinzieHeather from my perspective. I first met Heather at a national SHRM conference several years ago. We were both part of the blog team for the conference and it was my first time attending a national conference. Heather turned out to be one of the friendliest people I’ve ever met. I remember attending a session with her and Joan Ginsberg, who was also on the team, and just being amazed at how the three of us could sit in the same session and learn something new together even though we were all at different levels of our careers. Heather became a great contact in my HR network and a friend I keep in touch with year round. It was only last year when I had a chance to hear her present for the first time. I knew Heather was smart, I knew Heather was passionate about what she does, I knew Heather was well-spoken so I wasn’t surprised when she presented an awesome presentation on the Smart Stage at #SHRM16. At some point I stopped watching her and started watching the audience. Everyone was engaged and paying attention. People were smiling and nodding along. People were enjoying her presentation. To be fair, I think she could give a presentation about beef jerky and we would still enjoy listening to her present.

One of the other things I do at national conference is look for speakers for my local chapter and our state conference so when I saw how engaged the audience was I knew my local chapter needed to hear from her. She did not disappoint! In fact, this year she did 3 sessions for our local chapter in one day. We started with an executive level breakfast, then our normal monthly luncheon, and an evening meeting with our student chapters. The after meeting survey results raved about Heather, her presentation style, and her topics! Having her spend the day with our chapter was a great investment for our local HR community.

Now, her topic for SHRM. My first question to Heather was “why this topic?” I need to admit that I saw it and kind of stopped and made a squish face at it… I’ve been known to use this phrase often “It’s 2017, everyone is providing flexibility for professionals.” This is usually in response to any one of my HR pals that are thinking they may want to find a new job, but they enjoy the flexibility their current one provides. Turns out, I’m wrong… a lot of places still aren’t offering this flexible “work from wherever you need to occasionally” type of flexibility. If you had the same response, stay tuned because she’s going to spell it out for me/us.

Q: Why this Topic?

A: Well, being based out of Alaska I think if we can’t get it right, who can? We have a lot of businesses that have employees across the country and that requires some flexibility. Secondly, we’ve noticed a huge rise in what I like to call “intermittent remote workers” because it has been added to the employee value proposition required of a global economy. If commerce can happen globally why can’t the workforce happen globally?

Q: Since I naively thought everyone offered this already, I’m curious what your thoughts are on what is holding some organizations back from rolling out some form of remote work?

A: There is a myth that its hard to do or should only be reserved for special situations. I want to bust those myths and show how it prepares the business for success. I should clarify, just because it’s not difficult, doesn’t mean it’s easy. There are factors to explore and consider and some times there is a plausible business case to not have remote work options for employees. There are legitimate obstacles to consider from network security to ability to handle meetings. There are good reasons to shy away from it, but not stay away from it.

Q: A kind of expected question, what is the number one reason you hear from organizations that don’t have remote work in place already?

A: What I see often as a consultant is organizations shying away from flexibility because of trust. I say to that, if you don’t trust your workforce, why are they there? If you are afraid your employees are stealing from you, there is a bigger problem to solve.

Q: Okay, remember when Mayer took over at Yahoo and then pulled all the remote workers back into a physical office? Do you think the media coverage of that ‘mess’ and how employees responded may have hindered HR professionals consideration of remote work?

A: I think its important to make sure we are trying to solve the right problem. I can’t recall an article that really dug into the real issue of why she chose to do it, rather talking about the shock to the employees and culture change that was happening because of it. Was the remote workforce the problem or was it a leadership problem? Were they being managed properly? We must avoid headlines when we are working in our organizations and identify the failure so we can provide the right solution.

Q: I don’t want to giveaway your presentation so I want to switch gears on you. What are you most excited about for this years conference?

A: I’m excited to be in New Orleans, it will be my first time in New Orleans! I’m super excited to see HCJ… I’ve had a crush on him since 1995, maybe you saw the movie copycat?

Q: Never saw it. Where can people find you to connect- online and in person at #SHRM17?

A: One place you’ll be able to find me at the conference is the bloggers lounge! Please stop by, I’d love to meet all of you! I’m honored to have represented SHRM for years on the blog team. You can find me on twitter @HeatherKinzie and on LinkedIn (I don’t think I’m the only Heather Kinzie on LI, but surely the only cool one!!). Folks can also find some of my work at thestrivegroup.com or any of The Strive Group social media sites!

Attendees, you all can hear more about what Heather has to say on Wednesday June 21st at 11:30 a.m. Conference happens so fast and I can understand the exhaustion some of us experience by Wednesday, but you will not regret going to hear Heather elaborate on The Rise of the Remote Worker! It sounds like she will be tying in many aspects for us to consider as we look at remote work as an option or improve the way we are using remote workers.

See you all in #NOLA soon!!

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5 ways to be “All In” at #SHRM17

The countdown is on for #SHRM17!! I get so excited for the SHRM Annual Conference and Exposition every year because I’m guaranteed to see some of my extremely smart HR pals, discover some awesome presenters, learn a thing or two, and have a great time. All of these things have been true of my conference experience every year, regardless of the location so bringing it to New Orleans is just the cherry on top for me this year! I’ve only been to New Orleans one other time and I absolutely loved it-I’m thrilled to have a reason to go back!

This year is a great opportunity for us to challenge each other to be “All In” given that is the theme for the conference and when I thought about what that means for me I realized it means the following few things.

First, it means I’ve got to increase my behavioral competencies knowledge because that was my lowest score on my SHRM-SCP results. I was really happy with the rest of my results so I’m going to take this opportunity at conference to find sessions to help me improve in this area. Second, I have to grow my network some more, let more people into my circle. I’ve made some great connections through the years at these events so I can’t stop now- after all something like 15,000 people go to this conference, I only know a small FRACTION of those folks! Also, I have to be intentional about finding knowledge and people who can help me solve my HR problems rather than cluster around and complain about our HR problems. This is tough because as HR professionals we cannot typically vent within our organizations when we are troubled by something so it’s easy to let it all out at a conference away from work with our HR brethren. Fourth, I have to be “All In” with what I learn at conference this year. That means when I get back to work, I need to use what I learned. I need to bring back ideas to Huntsville and share with our chapter. I can’t just take notes and never look at them again. Finally, I’ve got to challenge my peers to be “All In” on taking HR to the next level. I will not enable you to complain about what you “don’t have” in your organization (resources, table, support, etc.) instead I will empower you to use what you’ve got to get you what you need!

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Should I drop my PHR?

Great news friends! I have earned my SHRM-SCP. I’m super excited about it because I never thought I would ever try to earn a senior certification, but when someone shared with me last year that they thought I had enough years experience to be a mentor I’ve been re-evaluating my life ever since. For instance, now I’m overly aware of beauty regiments and my calcium intake as well as the fact that if I try really hard I can burn 10 calories a minute in a boot-camp class, but still consume about 100 calories a minute without trying. 100 calories a minute hasn’t always been a problem, but I guess as you reach new heights in your career like being considered a mentor or becoming eligible to sit for a senior certification things just work different than they used to. Also, I found my first gray hair so I guess yeah… I’m a senior certified HR professional.

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Proof of my first gray hair

So what does my PHR have to do with my SHRM-SCP and my baby crows feet? Well, I’m currently unequally certified. I wasn’t feeling confident about taking my SPHR before the cut off to basically roll into the SHRM certification level to match my HRCI certification level so I ended up with my PHR and SHRM-CP. A month before my scheduled test for the SCP I had to renew my PHR. Since I hadn’t taken the test yet I decided to pay the $150 to renew my PHR and go from there, so technically I’m re-certified at the PHR level for the next three years & I now have my SHRM-SCP for the next three years. Is it worth it to maintain both when they don’t represent the same level of experience?

When the HRCI/SHRM split happened there was a lot of speculation over which certification would come out on top. There was a lot of badmouthing from both sides and plenty of HR professionals who had strong opinions one way or the other. I shared why my PHR was important to me at the time, but now the circumstances are different. I’ve always seen certification as a commitment to continued learning whether its HRCI or SHRM or some other organization. I’m more concerned about professionals maintaining enough credits to re-certify than I am them taking the initial test (though thats clearly necessary and part of the process, its only a one time thing). If professionals are continuing to earn credit then hopefully they are continuing to learn new things about their field and attend events where they can network with other professionals and learn something new and take their own skills to the next level. So now that the circumstances are different and I have to make a decision for which certification is going to “win out” over the other, I’m probably going to pick my SHRM one. It’s the more senior one, I’m a member of SHRM, and my local SHRM chapter (NASHRM), and honestly I have never used a resource from HRCI outside of my PHR exam. My PHR was very important to me when I earned it, but now I’m in a different stage of my career and it’s time to choose one or the other so yeah, I think I’ll drop my PHR.

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